Donna Serdula, Founder and President of Vision Board Media and LinkedIn expert, joins the show to dive into the nuances of personal branding on LinkedIn. The conversation covers the evolution of the platform from strictly professional to a space for authentic personal expression. Donna advises on the importance of consistent content creation and engagement to build a memorable brand.
“If you sit down and really make sure that your profile resonates and is truly you, it feels good, and you smile. Ultimately, you become a person who doesn't have to look for a job. Jobs find you. You become a person whose phone rings because there are opportunities, because people know you, remember you, have worked with you, and they want to work with you again.”
—Donna Serdula
The finer details of this episode:
Episode resources:
Timestamps:
The importance of personal branding on LinkedIn (00:01:13)
Discussion on the psychology behind personal branding and deliberate control of perception.
The shift in perception of LinkedIn (00:02:07)
The change from a passive networking platform to a more active and personal branding platform.
The challenges of maintaining a professional presence on social media (00:02:44)
Struggles with the perception of LinkedIn as a purely professional platform and the fear of being too personal.
The evolving concept of professionalism on LinkedIn (00:04:25)
Debunking the traditional image of professionalism and the need to move away from the concept of a suit and tie.
The importance of personal branding for career growth (00:08:08)
Emphasizing the significance of personal branding for career development and the need to control one's brand.
Strategies for personal branding on LinkedIn (00:09:49)
Discussion on the vision, mission, and consistent portrayal of oneself to create a strong personal brand.
The value of personal connection in professional work (00:12:49)
The significance of bringing one's whole self to work and the impact of personal connections in professional settings.
The time and effort required for effective LinkedIn utilization (00:15:49)
The need for strategic planning, time investment, and iterative work to create a strong LinkedIn profile.
Overcoming psychological barriers to posting on LinkedIn (00:18:16)
Dealing with the negative psychology and vulnerability associated with posting on LinkedIn.
The positivity of LinkedIn (00:19:08)
Discussion about the positive and professional atmosphere of LinkedIn compared to other social media platforms.
Building a professional network (00:20:08)
The importance of surrounding oneself with positive and empowering connections on LinkedIn.
Creating an authentic LinkedIn profile (00:21:06)
Encouragement to take control of one's image on LinkedIn, making the profile authentic and aligned with personal goals.
Utilizing LinkedIn for professional relationships (00:22:00)
The significance of researching and checking out profiles on LinkedIn for business interactions.
Starting and maintaining a LinkedIn profile (00:24:43)
Encouragement for individuals to start their LinkedIn journey and the emotional component of personal branding.
Success on LinkedIn and real-world relationships (00:26:23)
Emphasizing the importance of moving beyond LinkedIn to build real-world relationships for professional success.
Consistency and storytelling on LinkedIn (00:33:42)
The importance of consistency in posting and sharing on LinkedIn, drawing parallels with a story from "The Little Prince."
Balancing positivity and authenticity on LinkedIn (00:37:01)
Encouragement to not overthink posting on LinkedIn and to share authentic experiences without worrying about being too cringey.
Personal Branding on LinkedIn (00:37:50)
Donna discusses the importance of posting on LinkedIn to develop personal branding and shares tips for creating engaging content.
Encouragement and Personal Growth (00:40:43)
The hosts and Donna share personal experiences and offer encouragement for those feeling behind in their professional journey.
Expanding Your Network on LinkedIn (00:43:08)
Donna advises expanding the LinkedIn network to gain diverse perspectives and avoid feeling stuck in comparison.
Investing in Personal Branding (00:45:18)
Donna emphasizes the value of investing in personal branding and recommends utilizing free resources for self-improvement.
Personal Life and Interests (00:46:38)
Donna shares personal insights about being a mother and having a son with special needs, offering a broader perspective for her work.
Intro (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Young CPA Success Show. If you're a young accounting professional, this podcast is your ultimate guide to navigating your early career. Join us as we share valuable insights, expert advice, and practical tips to help you kickstart your path to success and excel in the accounting industry. Let's embark on this exciting accounting journey together.
Joey (00:00:23) - Don, I'm really excited for this because as I've, Hannah and I have talked about this before, like the joke I always say about myself is like, I'm the worst millennial ever in that I just am terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible at social media and LinkedIn and all of these types of things. And I know I'm not the only one because, you know, obviously you've been able to kind of do like a, an entire company around, like helping people with LinkedIn and those types of things. So obviously we'd love to love to lean into that in the show. Is there anything else that you know you are like particularly excited about that's going on in your life that we could we could talk about? We don't really have much of a set agenda.
Joey (00:01:07) - We like it to just be a free-flowing conversation and just kind of chatting.
Donna (00:01:10) - Yeah.
Joey (00:01:011) - Kind of chatting.
Donna (00:01:13) - I loved. I love to chat, I love to chat. You know, things that I love to talk about. I love I love to talk about LinkedIn. I love to talk about, you know, a person's brand and how to, you know, like that's it's not so much like the it's not like LinkedIn really that people are it's putting themselves out there. It's like it's sort of like the, the psychology underneath it. It's how do I tell my story? How do I position myself, you know, like and it's getting deliberate, you know, and, and really deciding this is how I want to be perceived and let me control it. So, I love talking about that, love talking about that, love talking about, even getting loud on LinkedIn, you know, because at one time there was just it was a passive platform. I put out a great looking profile. Stuff would come to you, but now it's a little different.
Donna (00:02:07) - Like you do have to, you know, it really has become a true networking platform and you've got to join that conversation and you got to get loud. How do you get loud? This is your career. There's no like we were just saying about, you know, going doing a live show, like you're scared of little mistakes and things like that. That's. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's it's intimidating. It's scary. This is your career. This is your business. Can you eat like it's better to remain, you know, what is that old saying? It's better to remain silent and have people think you're dumb than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Right. Exactly. Yeah. That's. That's the deal. Yeah.
Hannah (00:02:44) - I feel like I struggle on LinkedIn because it's like for so long, I think I perceive LinkedIn as being this place where like should be my resume and like just truly like be like this very professional version of myself and like what my career is.
Hannah (00:02:56) - And I feel like there's been this shift and I've seen this shift in people that I follow on LinkedIn of it being more of, like you said, like that personal brand and telling your story and being more personal and like kind of pulling back the curtain a little bit more than what maybe LinkedIn was initially created for and like the purpose of that platform. So that's been really interesting to me to see. But again, kind of like using that same adjective. It's intimidating. Like that's how I feel about potentially pulling back the curtain to that audience, which is interesting because I'm not afraid to do that, like on, on, Facebook or Instagram or anything.so.
Donna (00:03:32) - Different. Audience. Yeah
Hannah (00:03:34) - So, like, how do you find that balance between like, yes, I want this to be the professional platform, but I also want to let people in to like who I am beyond my profession.
Joey (00:03:42) - I was thinking about what Hannah was saying. And Hannah, I go back to that meme, and I'm sure you've seen the meme where it's like you've got the four different personalities of, like, who you are on Facebook, who you are on Instagram, who you are on Twitter, and who you are on LinkedIn.
Joey (00:03:53) - And like the Twitter version, like, I guess the LinkedIn version of me has like a suit and tie, and the Twitter version of me is like, you know, wearing a helmet with two beer cans at a K-State football game.
Donna (00:04:03) - Like, there's Joey. Joey, can I tell you my big pet peeve of something that you just said? All right, this is something that I have to go this is something that I have fought forever. And that is the idea of LinkedIn and a suit and tie. Yeah. Yeah I.
Joey (00:04:25) - Hate that.
Donna (00:04:25) - Like I hate it, I hate it one. There are one. There's women on. Right. And two who wear a suit and tie anymore. Like is that indicative of really anything. You know. So, in some ways what, what we were just discussing which is there's been the shift I think the shift is, that it's in itself, it's this idea of this stuffy traditional, you know, tie like where's the tie.
Donna (00:04:53) - But you know, still this, this idea of the tie. Yeah. Like if I.
Hannah (00:04:57) - Think like if I, if linked in, like, were to develop some sort of persona, like, it literally would come out to me and like, I envisioned that being like a man in a suit and tie, like what I envisioned LinkedIn to.
Donna (00:05:10) - Be know. And so, we've got it. We've got to we've got to know that we've got to obliterate that concept, because who is that person that suit and tie? It's that judgy person who's going, whom. Are they really posting the right thing? Are they really, you know, are they, showing too much personality, too much warmth, too much humanity?
Joey (00:05:28) - No, it's so interesting because I think back to like a place that I worked previously, which was, you know, I'm not going to I don't want to, you know, spill too much tea on the podcast or the dirty laundry. But there was a it was an industry that that does kind of fall into some of these more traditional stereotypes.
Joey (00:05:45) - And there was a gentleman who worked at the, at the firm who said, there is a, there is like a uniform that you wear to this job. You are only able to do it if you are wearing a white-collar shirt, a blue-collar shirt or and a tie. But we used to call that the uniform.
Donna (00:06:01) - And he's he came from IBM, right. You have to.
Hannah (00:06:05) - Add to.
Joey (00:06:06) - It was it was in the real estate industry. So, it's kind of one of those ones where, you know, I'm not going to. My response was always, hey man, do you like if that works for you, like if you like getting up in the morning and putting on a tie because that makes you feel good, it makes you feel like empowered and like, you know, there's something sometimes kind of fun about dressing up or I love to dress up and go to a fun restaurant or to the to a play or to a musical or something. But the thing that always bugged me about it was like, that can't be the expectation for everybody.
Joey (00:06:38) - Yeah. Like that suit and tie does not indicate whether or not you can do the job or whether somebody else can do the job. And that was the thing that I always tried to divorce myself from. And that was the, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm sitting here at home in my home office wearing, you know, a lovely, nice light, you know, sweater, sweatshirt type thing. I've got, you know, sweatpants on and my UGG moccasins on my feet and that. Outfit doesn't change whether or not I can do accounting or whether or not I can do consulting. And that's been the greatest shift, I think, in the last ten years. To your point, is that we are understanding that excellence comes in all shapes, sizes, genders, backgrounds. Excellence can come from anywhere.
Donna (00:07:27) - Yeah. And it's so limiting, right, to think of it in such a you know, what's professional is this traditional image. And that's not true anymore. And it's nice to expand outside of that.
Donna (00:07:39) - And to say, you know, LinkedIn is it's connections. It's a network. It's it is professional. It is career oriented. Thank goodness for that. Right. We don't want it to, to be, completely a personal type of situation. But at the same time, I think we are seeing such a huge change in how we work and, and working from home brings in this whole new personal element. So, we have to embrace that.
Hannah (00:08:08) - And one thing that you talked about too earlier when we were talking pre-show was about like your personal brand. And I think that LinkedIn provides a beautiful platform for somebody at any stage in their career to potentially start to develop their personal brand. I think that's one thing that I wish I'd probably done more of early on in my career, especially because I feel like personal brand is so important because outside of your employer, because that may not be forever and that may not be like who you are. So I think that's just so important. So, like, how do you do even do that? Like, I just I want you to speak to somebody who's like, what? He then is a brand
Hannah (00:08:46) - And how what does that even look like?
Donna (00:08:50) - You know, everyone has one. Believe it or not, you have one. Whether you cultivated it, that's something totally different. But everyone does come with a brand and it's, it's basically, you know, how are people perceiving you. are people noticing you or people remembering you. Are people associating you with a certain qualities or, you know, work ethic or expectations. Right. And, and you know, the hope is the desire is that we control this brand and we don't just leave it to other people to, to judge us and make assumptions. Right? That's where there's issues. And that's when people start to find themselves pigeonholed or stuck or, not going in the direction that they want. You know, for me that the idea of a brand is it's really about empowering. It's empowering a person to say, you know, this is who I am, this is what I do, and this is the direction I want to hit.
Donna (00:09:49) - I have a I have a vision for myself. I've got a mission right. And how can I put myself out there consistently through my values, through my actions, though the descriptions that I use and how I show up to work on zoom, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, any, any place where I'm leaving a bread trail. How can I make sure that bread trail is always pumpernickel or anything? It's consistent. And but the nice thing is, you know, you can you can make pivots through, you know, as well, you know, I don't want you to think that it always has to be pumpernickel. And if you decide you suddenly want it to be sourdough, you can do that. But at the same time, the idea is, you know, you're just you're consistently showing up and you're creating a network. You're forging relationships. Now what does this all mean? All right. I'm talking all these things. So ultimately you become a person who doesn't have to look for a job.
Donna (00:10:51) - Jobs find you, right? You become a person whose phone rings because there's opportunities, because people know you, they remember you, they've worked with you, they know the type of work that you do, and they and they want to work with you again. Right. It's that idea and think to yourself, you know, you know, if I was to just think of like an industry or something, like sometimes there's a person who just always pops up like, I need a recruiter. I always think of Ed Hahn because he's always there on LinkedIn. He's always there on Facebook. He's always talking about it. He's very consistent with his messaging. So, whenever I need a recruiter, he's the one that I call because he's just right there, top of mind. And that's what we want to achieve for ourselves, in our professions, wherever we may sit within, you know, the different industries.
Joey (00:11:40) - I think there's a there's a really good lesson here, not just for young CPAs, but for really anybody.
Joey (00:11:45) - Right? Which is, as I think the when I think about my parents. Right. And I think about because both my parents were accountants. So same industry. When I think about the advice that they gave me growing up, they were very focused on skills. Skills matter. Build your skills, build your toolbox, build all those things. Yes. Very important. But when I think about who when we're making hiring decisions, when we're figuring out who we want to work with. As I've moved up into management roles, I've started caring less and less about skill, and more and more about who and what that person does. And I want to brag on Hannah for a second here, because we don't often get to talk about on this podcast, like what we do outside of the podcast in our daily work. Hannah is an exceptional accountant. She's an exceptional CFO, and she can do all the things we need her to do. What's most enjoyable about working with Hannah is that she brings her whole self to her work.
Joey (00:12:49) - So when we're talking with a client and there's a moment where she needs to make a connection, she's going to go to her kids. She's going to go to her passions, she's going to go to her family, those types of things that she can bring her whole self, and it makes her a more complete CFO. And that's the shift. When I think about branding on LinkedIn and those types of things, that's what I want to see from people. That's what I want to bring to my LinkedIn, and I'm terrible at it. I don't know how to do it, but it's so hard. Yeah.
Donna (00:13:23) - It's hard to write about yourself, and it's also hard to know what to write and how to make it sound. And it's one thing to hit a button and have it generated for you. Right. And like, oh, okay. But is it really touching upon all the points, you know, and is it, is it producing the correct response within the reader? Like those are all really important pieces.
Donna (00:13:44) - But what you've said is how can I articulate, you know, my brand, my story and my mission and how can I showcase that? I'm warm, I'm human, I'm passionate. I'm mission driven. I'm enthusiastic, I'm friendly. Right. These are and these are really important pieces. And we want, we want to show them, you know. And so I think the first thing when you're thinking about LinkedIn is one, we need to think about our goal, you know, why are we on it. You know, are we doing this for reputation management. Are we doing this for branding. Are we doing this for prospecting and sales? Are we doing this to be seen as a thought leader? You know, it could it could hit a whole bunch of these or it could be very specific. But let's really get clear. Why are we on it? Because if we're looking for a job, the way we present ourself is going to be different. If we are doing this for prospecting or sales or even for thought leadership.
Donna (00:14:40) - Right. So, there's different stories to be told depending upon our goal. There's also different stories to be told depending upon our target audience. You know, is it a high level executive? Is it a small business owner? You know, they have different desires and needs that they want from you. So, let's really get clear on who that audience is so we can cater our content specifically to them. That's important. And then then we need to say to ourselves, if we want to get found, what are those keywords that people might be using to find someone like us, right. Because we want to use those keywords, contextual early. We want to make sure that they're in some pretty sensitive fields within our profile that helps us rise in the in the search engine ranking, or the search results. then, Right. So we're just we haven't even said we're like we're.
Joey (00:15:34) - Like scratching the surface here.
Donna (00:15:35) - Exactly. Yeah. We haven't, but we haven't even done anything. We're just it's all right now
Donna (00:15:40) - It's just the strategy piece. Then you've got to say to yourself, guess what? Guess what? This is going to take me more than five minutes to do.
Joey (00:15:49) - I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that was a question that I had cued up that maybe we talk about it now, maybe we talk about it later. But I'm always like, who's even got the time to LinkedIn? And how do you make the time? I don't want to I don't want to derail your thought there because I think you were running. But I do want to touch base on that later. Once we've kind of defined everything is like what's even the right amount? Like, how much time should I be putting to this?
Hannah (00:16:13) - Yeah.
Donna (00:16:13) - Well, you know, there's and it's different, right. Because with LinkedIn there's different levels of activity. Right. And so when we think about the profile and that's just the foundational aspect of LinkedIn, you're going to have to put some time into it. It's not like it's just going to happen, you know like this.
Donna (00:16:31) - And I think that's the issue. People go, oh, I've got five minutes. If you have five minutes, what are you going to do? You're going to copy and paste a resume. Right? And then it's going to be misaligned to your target audience because you're not looking for a job, you know, or maybe if you are looking for a job, maybe then you're grabbing an old, out-of-date one. You know, and you're focused too much on the past and not the future. So, recognize first and foremost that this is not easy. It takes time and it's iterative. Right. So, you're going to find that you may have to take a couple passes to get it to where it needs to be. And it's also okay, you know, to turn and say, you know what? You know what? I want to work with someone and maybe it's II want an AI tool to help me that, you know, maybe that works.
Donna (00:17:21) - Or maybe it's I do want to work with a human being, someone that I could talk to, someone who can draw this out of me. Someone who can listen and connect these dots and, and create something that's fabulous. Because it is hard to write about ourselves. It's really, really hard. It's totally normal. It's true for everybody, even the best writers, when it comes to themselves. It's a struggle.
Hannah (00:17:48) - Yeah I do, I struggle with that. And I feel like that because I struggle with that and because there's so much psychology like that goes on behind that as well. I end up getting just paralysis whenever it comes to like posting. I'm just like, I don't know what to say, so I'm just not going to say anything at all. Like, so then it's like, it's just not worth it. Like I can't do it. And LinkedIn is an interesting platform in that. I think obviously if you know you're on LinkedIn, it will show you like people who view your profile, and that makes me feel some type of way.
Hannah (00:18:16) - Sometimes whenever I go look and say, like somebody has viewed my profile and I'm like, what are they looking at? Why are they here? Who are they? Why would they even be looking at me? And especially that's been heightened, especially with the with the show, is I feel like I've seen an increase in that, especially with people like reaching out to connect or for, for whatever reason. But it just it adds to just that negative, like psychology like that, that voice and that narrative in my head of what people are thinking of and like how I'm perceived and just it's a struggle. So, I get to a point where it's just like, I'm just not even going to post. I'm just not going to do it. Yeah, well.
Donna (00:18:51) - You know, I think.
Joey (00:18:52) - For me to not post.
Hannah (00:18:53) - Yeah, exactly.
Donna (00:18:55) - And yet you're hurting yourself at the same time.
Hannah (00:18:58) - Right
Donna (00:18:59) - Because it is, you know, there's so much there's so much to gain. And you have to you have to recognize that there is a bit of vulnerability here.
Donna (00:19:08) - There is an element, there is a small element of risk. But at the same time, I will tell you, LinkedIn is a lovely, kind network. It's a great platform. And the people are good. They're understanding. I've been on it forever and on a whole. I mean, not even on a whole. You're not going to find people because I think because it's professionally driven, people do tend to stay more positive because of that. And that's a good thing.
Joey (00:19:36) - I see a lot less trolling on LinkedIn than I do on other, slightly more anonymized sources and places for that. So that is that is comforting to me, where, you know, as someone who tends to, I've always said, I don't want to be Michael Jordan in any situation, but I do want to be the guy who jumps off the bench and gives Michael Jordan a high five. That's a really good role for me to play, so I tend to gravitate more towards those empowering, positive type things than what you know.
Joey (00:20:08) - I find some of the other social medias, which is, man, what's the best joke I can make? Or how funny can I be? How witty can I be? Those types of things. So I do enjoy that aspect of LinkedIn in terms of like building the network in that and that manner and surrounding yourselves with people who. Are going to challenge you, but maybe challenge you in a way that's good.
Donna (00:20:30) - And positive and helpful, right? You know, and going back to Hannah, what you were saying, you know, in some ways I think a lot of that fear, you know, when a person is, why are these people checking me out, you know, what are they seeing? You know, I almost feel that if you were to take control, right? Really take control of the image as you, as you are on LinkedIn and say, you know what? I'm going to sit down and I'm going to really make sure that this profile resonates. And it is truly me.
Donna (00:21:06) - It's authentic. It's a manifesto. It talks about how I help people, why I do what I love, what it means, what I represent. And you have it out there in a manner where when you look at it, it feels, it feels good and you smile. All of those people who are coming to check it out now, suddenly you know that you're it's almost like going, you know, getting dressed up to, to see people. Right? It's, it's you're making that that it's that effort and now it's I'm, I'm happy. It's like going to the grocery store, you know, when you're, when you're like, all sloppy and you don't want to meet anyone, you don't want anyone to see you.
Hannah (00:21:47) - So done that. Right.
Donna (00:21:49) - And like whenever you do, that's when you
Hannah (00:21:51) - You're gonna.
Donna (00:21:52) - You're just you're gonna meet, you know, it always happens. Same thing with LinkedIn. It's like, let's make sure that, you know, it's telling the right story.
Donna (00:22:00) - It's, you know, it's aligned to your goals. It's that manifesto. It's not just a dull out of date resume. It's not just this place where I'm bragging, you know, but, you know, it's telling the story in a very natural, good way. And, and I think when you, when you do that, when people start to hit the profile, you're happy. You're happy because they're seeing the best of you. There's and you know, you're in control of the image. And you might also find that you're more apt to visit other people's profiles and, you know, talking about, you know, building business, you know, don't you know, when a person comes to hire you or talk to you about you working with them, you know, they want to know that you did your due diligence, that you checked out their resume and you checked out their profile and they checked out your, you know, the website and you're coming educated and researched and ready to help them.
Donna (00:22:58) - Right. And so, in some ways, you know, having that strong image and, and definitely utilizing the ability that people see that you check them out, that's shows that you're committed.
Joey (00:23:10) - I tell young, you know, new CFOs in our organization, if they're doing a client onboarding or something, I'm like, hey, what you just described, that's table stakes. Like if a CFO hops into a meeting and they haven't looked at the website and looked at all the people and, you know, gone to everybody's LinkedIn and, and I joke because like when, when she was in that situation, it was it's been a number of months at this point, but she and I both were like visiting the website at the same time, like doing all of our research. I was like, yeah, we Google everybody. We Google everybody.
Hannah (00:23:41) - Because my FBI hat on.
Hannah (00:23:43) - 100% client.
Hannah (00:23:45) - And start seeing what all I can find on the internet.
Joey (00:23:48) - Yeah, that's and I feel like that's table stakes at this point for just like even being able to engage in any type of thing.
Joey (00:23:53) - I want to know who I'm who I'm talking to, who I'm working with, what these types of things are. And that's exciting. And also maybe a little bit scary for someone who maybe hasn't invested the amount of time that they need to in making sure that, you know, the image that's portrayed online. And I love that you mentioned the word storytelling, because that's a very common theme throughout a lot of our podcasts. It's just we haven't cultivated that. But that's how important and prevalent it is, is it's pervasive through a lot of the things that we talk about. What? When? When you start working with somebody who comes to you and says, Donna, I really need some help with my LinkedIn. What's like your average client starting place for that? Because I would imagine it's it. People probably think, oh, I'm too far gone to be able to start. And I bet they're closer to the average than they think.
Donna (00:24:43) - You know what I always say, though, when people come to me and they're like, oh, you know, like I'm so far behind, like I, you know, there's that adage, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
Donna (00:24:55) - But the second best time is today. So it's better to get started now, you know, dig your well before your thirsty. Certainly. But like, let's just get started. Let's get started. And you know oftentimes people say oh I need I need a LinkedIn profile. And what I find and what I always say is why do you need a LinkedIn profile. Like what's really going on here. And when I start to dig, that's when we start to really uncover the true issue. It's never really it's not really the profile. Right. It's something happened. They missed a promotion. They lost a client. They need to recruit better talent. They need to prospect more effectively. There's a lot of other things going on there. It's never just let's build a brand to build a brand. Let's build a brand because we're trying to build something bigger.
Joey (00:25:49) - Yeah. And you hit on that. There's an emotional component to that, which again, that's the throughput from storytelling is it's all storytelling is all emotional.
Joey (00:25:57) - Right? There's an emotional connection there that's being made. And I like that. You know, you're identifying pretty quickly that LinkedIn is just the tool. But that is not the that is not the reason. That is not the end goal. That is the means to the end in terms of what that is. And that helps. I think that makes it a little less scary for me, that it's like, no, this is just a tool that you're using to achieve this larger goal.
Donna (00:26:23) - And, and, you know, I really do believe that success on LinkedIn is getting off LinkedIn. And what do I mean by that? I'm not saying permanently off LinkedIn because LinkedIn isn't going anywhere. And you're it's a long term long haul strategy. But you want the success that you're going to find is in the real world relationships. And so, yes, you might be meeting people on LinkedIn, but I don't want it to always stay on LinkedIn. You know, I want you to pick up the phone.
Donna (00:26:54) - I want you to meet the person for coffee. I want this to extend beyond just the platform.
Joey (00:27:00) - Yeah. It's an accelerator is really all it is.
Donna (00:27:04) - Yeah.
Hannah (00:27:05) - And you know I'm seeing a lot of parallels to. So, I'm reading the book right now Built to Last by Jim Cullen. So, I'm seeing a lot of parallels in terms of like the foundational aspects of a business in terms of the things that make businesses, the businesses that have been around for, for decades is just those core values. And staying true to those core values is one of the things that's talked about in this book. And I feel like there's a lot of parallel in that in terms of for us personally, especially as we start to develop that brand and who we show up as, I think there's some work that maybe a lot of us haven't taken the time to do whenever it comes to our presence on LinkedIn, in terms of even figuring out who we are and what we stand for, and like putting pen to paper and solidifying some of those core values and like how we want to show up.
Hannah (00:27:49) - I know that something that thankfully, like, I was in a role where I did do that. So, like, I have my own like personal like vision statement, mission statement, but like, I feel like had I not been forced to do that, I wouldn't have done it just on my own. I may have like had some like very lofty, like very foggy idea of like who I was and like what that looked like, but it was never solid. So, I feel like for a lot of what you're saying, like, it does take some work in that regard in terms of even figuring out who you are and how you want to show up.
Donna (00:28:19) - And what you said is, is so true. It's so true. LinkedIn is the perfect excuse. It's that challenge. It's that reason to get deliberate and to really start to think about your brand. If you didn't have that LinkedIn profile and people hitting it and knowing that that's how you're being introduced to people and it's, it's your, you know, first impression, it would be easy to say, you know what, I'll do it another time.
Donna (00:28:45) - I'm not going to bother. But having it there, it really does. It presents itself with it's the perfect excuse to finally say, enough, I've got to sit down. I've got to figure this out, and I've got to present myself in the right way. And you want to do it in a future forward type of way, right? Because that's the other thing. You know, oftentimes people say, oh, I'm, you know, I'm pigeonholed. Oh, you know, I feel stuck. Maybe it's really the way you're presenting yourself. You've been presenting yourself the same way for so long, and you forgot that you have to keep updating it and you have to keep iterating it. And it does need to change. And when you start to feel that, oh, I'm stuck or I'm why am I receiving these old types of opportunities or opportunities that are just not qualified for me? It's time to revisit, you know, because maybe you did all of those things, you know, ten years ago or five years ago or three years ago, right? When you get you got out of college, but now you're, you're more seasoned, you know, it's something that you have to keep revisiting and, and recalibrating.
Donna (00:29:54) - And so, you know, when people do look at you, they're looking not just at what you're doing, but what you're capable and what that vision you have for yourself is.
Joey (00:30:03) - And I think sometimes too, and I think about this a lot in the context of personal growth and journeys and those types of things. I'll be the first to admit, if I go back and look at something that I posted in 2010 when I was in college. It pains my soul a little bit.
Hannah (00:30:20) - Nobody embarrasses me more than 2008. Me 100. Facebook. Like the memories. I'm like, oh my gosh, like that.
Joey (00:30:30) - I thought.
Joey (00:30:32) - What was and what were those shoes? Right. Those are those are the questions that I asked myself, but I, I, I love this idea of like LinkedIn also. But it LinkedIn is a verb, right? It's an action. It's a thing that you have to do. And it's not a crockpot type situation. It's not a put it in in the morning, set it, forget it.
Joey (00:30:50) - And it's good forever. Right. It's. Yeah. And I really, you know, when I think about myself and trying to encourage, you know, changes in values, changes in the way you see the world like, you know, growth is something to be, you know, celebrated and enjoyed and embraced. And I know sometimes I'm thinking specifically about, you know, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce and how like, everyone was going back and looking at Travis Kelsey's tweets from college and he's like, hey, he can't spell squirrel what's going on here? And it's like, yes. But also let's say that maybe in the last ten years he's learned how to spell squirrel. So, let's acknowledge instead of going back and, you know, focusing on the past, let's acknowledge that growth that he's made. And that's how I think about LinkedIn, is I want to celebrate the growth that people have had, both in their careers and the way they see the world and the connections that they've made.
Joey (00:31:45) - And that's kind of my challenge to the audience and to myself, really, is let's start putting that on paper and let's start sharing those wonderful things with the world, because that's how we all get better, right? Yeah, I, I personally need to see somebody moving forward. Otherwise I'm not going to move.
Donna (00:32:02) - Yeah, yeah. And you know, I will say this, you know, when I think of Facebook, there's the memories and it's it is easy to go back in time on Facebook. Right. Like it is so easy to do easy. But it's not as easy on LinkedIn. And in some way you know, to you can scroll down. I mean but it's really what have you what have you produced lately within the LinkedIn realm, especially within that activity. And that's I think I think it's smart. It's smart that they're doing that because they've been around a long time and the workforce has been, you know, there's been some people who've been on it right from the very beginning with them.
Donna (00:32:44) - And I find that it's important when I look at a person and I'm sort of evaluating, I'm trying to understand who they are. I'll look at their profile and I'll look at their activity, you know? And I love to see that they're creating their it. And it doesn't have to be every day or multiple times a day. But just even if it's once a week or once a month, something that says this person has something to say, this person has something to offer. There's value here.
Joey (00:33:13) - Well, I love I love that idea, too, of getting into a cadence. Like I think about how when we started this show, we were kind of setting up like, what's the cadence? And the conversation was, how do you get your audience used to something like my favorite podcasts. I know that my favorite podcasts are going to be in my phone, downloaded and ready to go on Tuesday morning. Shout out to you, Bill Simmons in the rewatchable I love you. but you know, I know that's going to be there and I can count on it.
Joey (00:33:42) - And I love that idea of even if it's just once a month, you can always increase the cadence, but get yourself in that pattern. And in that habit of this is when I share what's on my mind, or what I'm thinking about, or what I'm doing, and get in the cadence.
Donna (00:34:00) - Have you ever read the book The Little Prince?
Joey (00:34:03) - No.
Donna (00:34:05) - Have you ever. It's a French children's book. You probably have seen the imagery. It's like the little prince and his little rose on. Like on the moon. Have you. Have you ever seen that?
Hannah (00:34:15) - I think I have, like, I.
Hannah (00:34:17) - Have seen that.
Hannah (00:34:17) - Like a memory of it.
Hannah (00:34:19) - The name. Yeah.
Hannah (00:34:20) - Well, in the book. In the book,
Donna (00:34:23) - The little prince, befriends a fox, and the fox says, I want you to tame me. I want you to tame me. I'm a wild animal, but I want you to tame me. And the little princess. How. How do I tame you? And.
Donna (00:34:36) - And the fox says you come back to see me every time at the exact same time each day. Because if you don't, I don't know when to expect you. I start to get frustrated. But if you want to tame me, then, you know, show up. Let me I want I need a regular schedule and you need to keep sitting closer and closer to me. And that just kept resonating in my mind, as you were saying that, because I think it's the same idea. Yeah. You have to be consistent. You know, it's that consistency that, you know, people, they might not even realize that they're waiting. But, you know, when they see it and they see you and you're showing up and you have something to say. That's what really forges trust.
Hannah (00:35:21) - I feel like that's.
Hannah (00:35:22) - Such a good starting point. I feel like that gives me something like I'm sitting there thinking, okay, like I could post on Monday evenings every evening and just set that for a goal as myself in terms of I'm going to show up in some capacity on a Monday night and then I've got a week to think about, like what I want to share with my audience.
Hannah (00:35:38) - Like. So, I love that. That feels really tangible as a starting point for that. And I know you talked about how LinkedIn is this is really positive place. And that's one of the things that I really love about LinkedIn is just that it does seem to be more uplifting, more celebratory. Yeah, type of place. However, I feel like there's a dark side to that in that there is a lot of comparison that happens in the celebration for other people, and seeing other people winning that is sometimes really, really hard to overcome because it's like, oh, this person, maybe I graduated with him. And like I just saw I saw one of the guys that I graduated with, he just made partner at his law firm, which I am so thankful for. But I'm like, oh, he just made partner. What? What am I doing?
Hannah (00:36:21) - Like old friend imposter syndrome.
Joey (00:36:23) - Coming right back in.
Hannah (00:36:24) - Hey, hey, I'm still here. Exactly.
Hannah (00:36:28) - So. But with that being said, like, there are people that I see on LinkedIn who do also kind of like I talked about, like, pull back that curtain a little bit and like show maybe not.
Hannah (00:36:38) - They're not so positive things of what has gone on in their day or their career, their year or whatever that is. So how do you how have you seen in terms of what you recommend for people to balance between super positive but also super authentic? And I think there's a place for both. But sometimes positive and authentic aren't always synonymous, with each other. So, like, what's the place for that in LinkedIn?
Donna (00:37:01) - You know, in some ways, you know, and I think of helping the, the average professional on, you know, out there embrace LinkedIn. I want to say to them, don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Just decide that you're going to get active and post what happened in your day. You know, don't get too caught up in is this authentic? Am I being too cringey or am I be like, those are the things that stop people from posting. And you know, when I was writing my For Dummies book, one thing that I found is when I had the deadlines and I had to meet, you know, it was like 30 pages every week.
Donna (00:37:50) - And it was it was it was hard. It was hard to, to, to do this. But, you know, I was writing and writing and writing. The more I wrote, the more it started coming out of me in every other way. I was suddenly journaling more, I was blogging more, I was on, I was posting more on Facebook. I was posting more on Twitter. It was like the more I posted, the more I was writing, the more it just sort of came out of me. And so, you know what I, what I would want a person to recognize is right now you're not posting. And that's why it's not it's not coming out of you. Right. A body in motion tends to stay at motion. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. You're at rest right now, but once you once, you say to yourself, look, I'm going to post. And right now don't overthink it. Think in terms of what are the questions that people often ask you.
Donna (00:38:40) - Maybe those are those are great posts. Maybe you're reading a book post that I don't want someone I don't want to tell anyone. Right now. You're going to have to expose a huge issue.
Donna (00:38:51) - Took place, or that's going to take new ones that will
Donna (00:38:56) - Come. But it's not don't, don't, don't worry about that right now. Celebrate someone right now. Answer a question right now. You know, share a link to a fabulous tool. You know, think in the positive. Think of things that that that excite you, that help you and people are going to respond to that. And then as you start moving down that path and you start to produce more and you start to at that point you're going to know what excites your audience. You're going to know where you stand. You're going to have experienced a lot more posting and the examples. And I really do believe that you're going to understand what's what makes sense for you, because it's going to be different for everybody.
Joey (00:39:48) - Come on, Hannah, I have a piece to follow up on that with, with some encouragement, because I, I had a bit of a failure to launch situation in post-high school and into college where I needed to do some personal growth before I could really start to achieve the things I wanted to achieve. And through that process, I did have a lot of situations where like I saw friends graduating and I'm like, man, I'm still three years away from this or this type of thing. And the encouragement that I want to give to you in the audience is that, you know, you're going to get that, you're going to get there when you get there. You know, I always tell people, look, there's a reason we put blinders on horses when they're racing, right? Like we're not completely isolating them. They can hear, they can feel they've got all their other senses. But that one sense, we want them focused on themselves. And that's my encouragement to folks who, who might be sitting there and saying like, man, I'm not there yet.
Joey (00:40:43) - No, you'll get there. You'll get there. Just keep going. You'll get there when you'll get there when you get there.
Hannah (00:40:48) - That is.
Donna (00:40:49) - That advice is so similar to what my father used to say to me back when I was in sales, and I had it was like, oh, he made that sale. I didn't make the sale. Like, they're doing this, they're doing it. And I remember my father said, put your blinders on.
Joey (00:41:06) - Yeah, run your race, your blinders on.
Donna (00:41:08) - It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. And you just have to, you know, run your like you said, run your race. It's you do you keep moving forward. And you know they might be celebrating, but who knows, maybe they're working until 9:00 every night. And maybe, you know, they hate getting up in the morning and, you know, maybe they're doing you know, everyone has their own battle that they're fighting.
Joey (00:41:36) - Right. And sometimes you don't see that.
Joey (00:41:37) - You don't see the again someone's working until 9:00 and maybe, maybe they went to bed and they didn't get to say goodnight to their kids. And they made the sale. And they're looking at you saying you know what. Donna. Got to say good night to her family. And I missed that. And so there's all there's always something that you don't see in that, that, you know, it's easy to get caught up in. It's human nature. Right? We look at the things that people see and it's something I have to remind myself, which is like there's, somebody out there that I have something that I don't value as much as somebody else does because it's mine. I have it right. Like I'm not valuing it in the same way. And that's an interesting reflection. Sometimes to think about is like. Kind of divorcing yourself a little bit from, from, you know, being so caught up in that comparison and it's, you know, I tried to do a gratitude journal.
Joey (00:42:32) - I'm terrible at journaling, but it's that same type of mentality, right? Where it's like, I, I am trying to find those types of things every day, and that's something that helps.
Hannah (00:42:40) - Well, let's.
Donna (00:42:41) - Talk about something tactical though. So, let's say let's say you're going through your LinkedIn feed and it's celebration after celebration. And you start to feel like, oh gosh, like, where am I in my world? Like, where am I in my life? You know, whatever it might be. Stop and expand your network. Stop and turn it from top updates to most recent updates.
Joey (00:43:07) - Hey, there you go. Okay.
Hannah(00:43:08) - Right.
Donna(00:43:09) - So maybe.
Donna (00:43:10) - Maybe, maybe it's not even. Maybe it's not imposter syndrome. Maybe what it really is it's such. Maybe your network is so small and you're just you're just getting hit with the same thing over and over and over again. And of course, a person's going to feel bad. So let's expand our network. Let's, let's, let's open up our lens to allow more light to shine through.
Joey (00:43:33) - Yes.
Hannah (00:43:35) - I Love that. Absolutely love that. Donna and Joey I feel like y'all have spoken like so much like truth over me and our audience. And like I think this time together has felt a little bit like therapy for, for.
Hannah (00:43:48) - Me, I feel very unburdened.
Joey (00:43:50) - Right now. I'm feeling great.
Hannah (00:43:51) - You know, like I feel empowered to go post on LinkedIn and, and just show up there. So, which is exactly what I was hoping for, for just me and even our listeners. Like, I hope that y'all feel empowered to go show up on LinkedIn. And I also hope that you'll feel empowered to expand your network by reaching out to me, Joey, and Donna, after listening to this episode. So, Donna, beyond that, how can our listeners connect with you? Like what is the best way that you recommend that for them?
Donna (00:44:20) - I would say, certainly. Visit my profile and hit the follow button. That way you can get all my crazy updates that I'm posting on LinkedIn.
Donna (00:44:30) - but also visit my website. It's linkedin-makeover.com, and if you click on Free resources, I've got a I got a slew of free, free tools. I have a LinkedIn headline generator I've got we just did it. It's a personal branding assessment. You answer some questions and really find out how are you presenting to your audience and what can you do to, you know, to level up and, and you know, what are the recommendations you can do to make some tweaks. So that's a free assessment. So definitely check that out. And there's a there's a slew of other things there. So, I would definitely say check out the free resources. And you know you know consider investing you know in yourself and your story and your brand and recognizing it's okay to ask for help and to work with someone to really unleash what's inside of you.
Joey (00:45:18) - I love that you call it an investment too, because that's really what it is. Is it? It's not an expense. It's an investment. You're investing in yourself.
Joey (00:45:25) - You're investing in your future.
Hannah (00:45:27) - And yeah, and it's the best return. I'm saying it's.
Joey (00:45:30) - Time well spent, right?
Hannah (00:45:32) - Yeah.
Joey (00:45:32) - Well, Donna, this has been a pleasure. One thing that we do love to kind of end shows with, and I will say the 40 minutes have, like, absolutely flown by.
Hannah (00:45:40) - Flown.
Joey (00:45:41) - We could talk for much longer. We had someone on a show a while ago ask us the type of question that made Hannah and I both simultaneously go, that's interesting. So we try to ask it to all of our guests at the end of the show. It's and I'm very curious to hear your answer to this, because you've been so open and honest and transparent with us about your story and how you do these things. So we like to ask people, especially in like the LinkedIn world, right, where we're talking about all of our accomplishments, but it's typically work related. So, you are a storytelling coach. You are a marketing guru. You're a branding genius.
Joey (00:46:19) - I'm putting genius on there because I think you're a genius. What is your and what else is there about Donna that we don't know that we should know about you in terms of how you're spending your time, your interests, other hobbies, things like that.
Donna(00:46:37) - You know.
Donna (00:46:38) - For the longest of time, I, I was I was purely a business person. I really was. But, ten years ago, I met my husband, and I have, two little boys. And so I am a mother. Oh, my goodness, am I a mother?
Donna (00:46:58) - I never thought I'd ever be a mother. But here I am.
Donna (00:47:01) - A mother. And my youngest son is, is on the spectrum. He has ADHD and Emerald. And so I am the mom of a
Donna (00:47:12) - Son with special needs. And that's huge for me. It's all encompassing. but I think it also gives me a lot more focus when I am working and I'm helping people. It allows me to see a much bigger picture.
Donna (00:47:25) - And I think other people can, and I'll tell you something really crazy. This might not be my end, but my husband is turning 14 at the end of next month.
Joey (00:47:39) - So we've got we've got a leap year.
Hannah (00:47:41) - He's a leap year, baby. Wait, what?
Hannah (00:47:45) - My brain did not process that fast.
Hannah (00:47:46) - And Joey clearly.
Joey (00:47:51) - I don't I, I am fascinated with leap year babies. I'm just going to I was born in September. It was never going to happen to me, so.
Donna (00:47:58) - Oh, I'm a September 1st to Virgo, right? Or are you a Libra? I'm right on the cusp.
Joey (00:48:03) - So I'm on September 22nd, which is the equinox. So, you know, everything's changing. So like my wife loves to say, like, Joey, you don't really fit well in either box. Like you've got some Virgo, you've got some Libra. You've got a little bit of both.
Donna (00:48:18) - But Virgo is a hard one. That's what he is.
Hannah (00:48:21) - He's a unicorn.
Donna (00:48:22) - A purple squirrel spelled wrong.
Joey (00:48:24) - You know, unicorn also means this guy's challenging a problem. Well, Donna, thank you so much. That was truly a joy for us and a pleasure. And I'm. We are not connected on LinkedIn. I will be connecting with you.
Hannah (00:48:42) - On changing that. Like.
Joey (00:48:44) - That's going to happen as soon as we as soon as we end record. And I know I'm looking forward to some of the things that I've been listening to and thinking about in terms of, you know, kind of getting a little bit more active there and working on some of the things we're talking about. I'm sure our audience is too. And I'm going to encourage everybody to take some time, get it, you know, connect with us, connect with everybody so that we can, you know, just build this great community because I think we're building a wonderful community with this show. I think we're building a wonderful community with people and folks that were we're talking about within our network. And I can't wait to see where things go in the future.
Hannah (00:49:20) - Thank you Donna.
Donna (00:49:21) - Thank you guys. Thank you so much.
Outro (00:49:24) - If you're a young CPA looking to develop in their careers, we're always looking for great people. Visit our website for remote work opportunities with Summit Virtual CFO, or find all our open positions at Anders CPAs and advisors.